Ken the stupidity is not just the UK

[Hound]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

For the same reason I can't compel you to call me your Lord and Master.

Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

Well you could. 😜

https://www.lordtitles.co.uk/

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

For the same reason I can't compel you to call me your Lord and Master.

Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

I was asking Terry, genuinely intrigued on his stance.

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

[Hound]

[fukyu]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

For the same reason I can't compel you to call me your Lord and Master.

Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

I was asking Terry, genuinely intrigued on his stance.

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

On what grounds,if gender is a construct the so are terms of address.

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

The lady sitting on the far left is right in some aspects. People take one extreme incident and roll with it. Obviously we shouldn't allow male criminals to falsely identify as a women so they can go and rape other prisoners. I think it's a bit more complex than just saying "I am a woman".

It's funny how men (not saying anyone here, this is a personal anecdote) use transgenderism to be outraged because "protect the women!" "Men identifying as women shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces!". I never see men talk this much about domestic violence towards women, when they do it's "not all men" though 😂

[TerryCochranesSocks]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

Because it's wrong to compel people to lie, you can choose to if you like, I choose not to.
It's also wrong to perpetuate this falsehood which then reduces women's rights; such as the right to have only actual women share bathrooms and changing rooms with them and their right to complete only against other actual women in sports. The sooner this utter lunacy ends the better.

[Hound]

The lady sitting on the far left is right in some aspects. People take one extreme incident and roll with it. Obviously we shouldn't allow male criminals to falsely identify as a women so they can go and rape other prisoners. I think it's a bit more complex than just saying "I am a woman".

It's funny how men (not saying anyone here, this is a personal anecdote) use transgenderism to be outraged because "protect the women!" "Men identifying as women shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces!". I never see men talk this much about domestic violence towards women, when they do it's "not all men" though 😂

There was actually a thread on here a few month ago with a gadg........... lady in a woman's space.

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

For the same reason I can't compel you to call me your Lord and Master.

Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

I was asking Terry, genuinely intrigued on his stance.

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

On what grounds,if gender is a construct the so are terms of address.

Malicious communications most probably

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

Because it's wrong to compel people to lie, you can choose to if you like, I choose not to.
It's also wrong to perpetuate this falsehood which then reduces women's rights; such as the right to have only actual women share bathrooms and changing rooms with them and their right to complete only against other actual women in sports. The sooner this utter lunacy ends the better.

I also think biological women have the right to their own spaces, maybe more gender neutral spaces would benefit the world.

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

The lady sitting on the far left is right in some aspects. People take one extreme incident and roll with it. Obviously we shouldn't allow male criminals to falsely identify as a women so they can go and rape other prisoners. I think it's a bit more complex than just saying "I am a woman".

It's funny how men (not saying anyone here, this is a personal anecdote) use transgenderism to be outraged because "protect the women!" "Men identifying as women shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces!". I never see men talk this much about domestic violence towards women, when they do it's "not all men" though 😂

There was actually a thread on here a few month ago with a gadg........... lady in a woman's space.

Will have to look for that one see who's "concerned" about women's rights 😂

Edit: started reading it, saw "sex education should start from 11+" and had to leave the thread

[fukyu]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

For the same reason I can't compel you to call me your Lord and Master.

Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

I was asking Terry, genuinely intrigued on his stance.

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

On what grounds,if gender is a construct the so are terms of address.

Malicious communications most probably

That applies to electronic devices, emails ect.And although we're heading that way you can't just claim discrimination you have to show it happened.And people can claim counter discrimination for being forced to use word they feel uncomfortable with.It's a ridiculous circus.

[TerryCochranesSocks]

By "biological women" do you mean women?
I'm struggling to think of how "more gender neutral spaces would benefit the world".
Some of the last bastions of male sanctuary have vanished now with the MCC voting to allow women members, and also the Garrick Club. I have no particularly strong feelings for or against those decisions although I'll admit to a degree of sadness at the loss of men's willingness to fight for their last few "men only" spaces.

If spaces have been restricted by gender generally, such as toilets and changing rooms etc., I see no value whatsoever in making those neutral. Problems that way lie.

[ZiEgE]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

For the same reason I can't compel you to call me your Lord and Master.

Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

I was asking Terry, genuinely intrigued on his stance.

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

I refuse to call people their preferred pronouns - call Teesside police and report me. Let's see what happens.

That's a hill I'm prepared to die on.

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

By "biological women" do you mean women?
I'm struggling to think of how "more gender neutral spaces would benefit the world".
Some of the last bastions of male sanctuary have vanished now with the MCC voting to allow women members, and also the Garrick Club. I have no particularly strong feelings for or against those decisions although I'll admit to a degree of sadness at the loss of men's willingness to fight for their last few "men only" spaces.

If spaces have been restricted by gender generally, such as toilets and changing rooms etc., I see no value whatsoever in making those neutral. Problems that way lie.

No I mean biological women, as opposed to people are aren't biological women 😂

Maybe if we had more gender neutral spaces there wouldn't be all these sex crimes you lot are worried about trans women committing because they're in a gender neutral changing room rather than a women's one.

You don't understand what I'm saying, I mean 3 changing rooms, men's, women's, and gender neutral with cubicles.

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

It's really not hard to just respect someone's choice and just say "they". I'd be so embarrassed to lose my job for refusing to say a word.

If you can't say it simply don't address them in a way where you need to use their pronouns... or use their name.

No-one other than the people "choosing" to go by a different gender / name / pronoun should be forced to indulge the lie.

Why not?

For the same reason I can't compel you to call me your Lord and Master.

Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

I was asking Terry, genuinely intrigued on his stance.

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

I refuse to call people their preferred pronouns - call Teesside police and report me. Let's see what happens.

That's a hill I'm prepared to die on.

Obviously one isolated message wouldn't trigger police involvement don't be daft 😂 but if someone were to look at all of your posts, pick out ones where you're talking anti LGBTQ you might get in bother.

Speaking figuratively because I have no idea what you've posted previously, was just saying to be careful what you're saying - not saying it's right or wrong.

Very defensive bunch.

[TerryCochranesSocks]

No I mean biological women, as opposed to people are aren't biological women 😂

Maybe if we had more gender neutral spaces there wouldn't be all these sex crimes you lot are worried about trans women committing because they're in a gender neutral changing room rather than a women's one.

You don't understand what I'm saying, I mean 3 changing rooms, men's, women's, and gender neutral with cubicles.

Only "biological women" are women. There's no need to add biological.

Ok, you're suggesting 3 toilets / changing rooms.
Should we have 3 gender categories for sports too?  The problem is that you'd have men and women (you know the only real categories) and your "neutral" category would need to encompass all of the multitude of "genders" people are claiming to be. Before long you'd have complaints that the non-binary lot are having to change with the pangenders, then the Two-Spirit lot would be kicking off because they're not adequately represented. The Genderfluid brigade would want to be able to use any of them at any time and the fucking furries would want a cat flap fitted!

It's total and utter nonsense.

[Hound]

And don't forget the detransitioners.

 

[fukyu]

By "biological women" do you mean women?
I'm struggling to think of how "more gender neutral spaces would benefit the world".
Some of the last bastions of male sanctuary have vanished now with the MCC voting to allow women members, and also the Garrick Club. I have no particularly strong feelings for or against those decisions although I'll admit to a degree of sadness at the loss of men's willingness to fight for their last few "men only" spaces.

If spaces have been restricted by gender generally, such as toilets and changing rooms etc., I see no value whatsoever in making those neutral. Problems that way lie.

No I mean biological women, as opposed to people are aren't biological women 😂

Maybe if we had more gender neutral spaces there wouldn't be all these sex crimes you lot are worried about trans women committing because they're in a gender neutral changing room rather than a women's one.

You don't understand what I'm saying, I mean 3 changing rooms, men's, women's, and gender neutral with cubicles.

no one's arguing about who goes in a gender neutral space (the clues in the name,) Women and men are saying trans should not be allowed in women only spaces, you should be pleased men are backing women on this.

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

By "biological women" do you mean women?
I'm struggling to think of how "more gender neutral spaces would benefit the world".
Some of the last bastions of male sanctuary have vanished now with the MCC voting to allow women members, and also the Garrick Club. I have no particularly strong feelings for or against those decisions although I'll admit to a degree of sadness at the loss of men's willingness to fight for their last few "men only" spaces.

If spaces have been restricted by gender generally, such as toilets and changing rooms etc., I see no value whatsoever in making those neutral. Problems that way lie.

No I mean biological women, as opposed to people are aren't biological women 😂

Maybe if we had more gender neutral spaces there wouldn't be all these sex crimes you lot are worried about trans women committing because they're in a gender neutral changing room rather than a women's one.

You don't understand what I'm saying, I mean 3 changing rooms, men's, women's, and gender neutral with cubicles.

no one's arguing about who goes in a gender neutral space (the clues in the name,) Women and men are saying trans should not be allowed in women only spaces, you should be pleased men are backing women on this.

You been on the piss? That's exactly what I'm saying. Male and female changing rooms, gender neutral for everyone else.

I'd rather not have men back it if it's to fuel a trans hating agenda. PSA this sentence does not mean that all men have a trans hating agenda!

[fukyu]

By "biological women" do you mean women?
I'm struggling to think of how "more gender neutral spaces would benefit the world".
Some of the last bastions of male sanctuary have vanished now with the MCC voting to allow women members, and also the Garrick Club. I have no particularly strong feelings for or against those decisions although I'll admit to a degree of sadness at the loss of men's willingness to fight for their last few "men only" spaces.

If spaces have been restricted by gender generally, such as toilets and changing rooms etc., I see no value whatsoever in making those neutral. Problems that way lie.

No I mean biological women, as opposed to people are aren't biological women 😂

Maybe if we had more gender neutral spaces there wouldn't be all these sex crimes you lot are worried about trans women committing because they're in a gender neutral changing room rather than a women's one.

You don't understand what I'm saying, I mean 3 changing rooms, men's, women's, and gender neutral with cubicles.

no one's arguing about who goes in a gender neutral space (the clues in the name,) Women and men are saying trans should not be allowed in women only spaces, you should be pleased men are backing women on this.

You been on the piss? That's exactly what I'm saying. Male and female changing rooms, gender neutral for everyone else.

I'd rather not have men back it if it's to fuel a trans hating agenda. PSA this sentence does not mean that all men have a trans hating agenda!

My response was to you regarding gender neutral changing rooms and I have read it wrong because of the punctuation.It's not trans hating to say they should not be allowed in womens sports or personal spaces.

[Clem Fandango]

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

The novel 1984 becomes more real every day.

Some quotes from that:

"There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad."

"In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy."

This won't be far away...

"The thought police would get him just the same. He had committed – would have committed, even if he had never set pen to paper – the essential crime that contained all others in itself. Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you"

A woman is a woman and a trans woman is a man.  That is the truth.  Truth outweighs feelings.

As our resident Millie Tant I would think you would be glad people want to support women's rights. Recent acts such as naming a man "Woman of the Year" or awarding a gold medal to man in a women's race are insane and diminish real actual women.

A question.... Would you let your tranny mate babysit your kid(s)?

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

The novel 1984 becomes more real every day.

Some quotes from that:

"There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad."

"In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy."

This won't be far away...

"The thought police would get him just the same. He had committed – would have committed, even if he had never set pen to paper – the essential crime that contained all others in itself. Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you"

A woman is a woman and a trans woman is a man.  That is the truth.  Truth outweighs feelings.

As our resident Millie Tant I would think you would be glad people want to support women's rights. Recent acts such as naming a man "Woman of the Year" or awarding a gold medal to man in a women's race are insane and diminish real actual women.

A question.... Would you let your tranny mate babysit your kid(s)?

I would love to get into it with you Clem but I'm a bit mentally drained tonight.

Realistically all I'm getting at is that when speaking face to face with someone who is trans, it's just the kind thing to use their preferred pronouns. Nobody knows the rest of my opinions around this, but it's certainly not what you're all assuming.

I just choose kindness. Do I want to see cock and balls in the women's changing rooms? No.

Nobody has ever babysat my child if that answers your question.

[spottygiraffe (Moderator)]

By "biological women" do you mean women?
I'm struggling to think of how "more gender neutral spaces would benefit the world".
Some of the last bastions of male sanctuary have vanished now with the MCC voting to allow women members, and also the Garrick Club. I have no particularly strong feelings for or against those decisions although I'll admit to a degree of sadness at the loss of men's willingness to fight for their last few "men only" spaces.

If spaces have been restricted by gender generally, such as toilets and changing rooms etc., I see no value whatsoever in making those neutral. Problems that way lie.

No I mean biological women, as opposed to people are aren't biological women 😂

Maybe if we had more gender neutral spaces there wouldn't be all these sex crimes you lot are worried about trans women committing because they're in a gender neutral changing room rather than a women's one.

You don't understand what I'm saying, I mean 3 changing rooms, men's, women's, and gender neutral with cubicles.

no one's arguing about who goes in a gender neutral space (the clues in the name,) Women and men are saying trans should not be allowed in women only spaces, you should be pleased men are backing women on this.

You been on the piss? That's exactly what I'm saying. Male and female changing rooms, gender neutral for everyone else.

I'd rather not have men back it if it's to fuel a trans hating agenda. PSA this sentence does not mean that all men have a trans hating agenda!

My response was to you regarding gender neutral changing rooms and I have read it wrong because of the punctuation.It's not trans hating to say they should not be allowed in womens sports or personal spaces.

No worries easily done.

I agree, I don't think it's trans hating to say that women and men are entitled to safety in their designated spaces.

[fukyu]

You do realise that Freedom of expression doesn't protect speech that incites violence, hatred, or discrimination. Under hate speech laws, it is illegal in many countries (including those under the ECHR) to use speech that promotes hostility, discrimination, or violence against individuals or groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.

I'd be extra careful with what you're saying online about refusing to call people their preferred pronouns. Could be classed as discrimination.

The novel 1984 becomes more real every day.

Some quotes from that:

"There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad."

"In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy."

This won't be far away...

"The thought police would get him just the same. He had committed – would have committed, even if he had never set pen to paper – the essential crime that contained all others in itself. Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you"

A woman is a woman and a trans woman is a man.  That is the truth.  Truth outweighs feelings.

As our resident Millie Tant I would think you would be glad people want to support women's rights. Recent acts such as naming a man "Woman of the Year" or awarding a gold medal to man in a women's race are insane and diminish real actual women.

A question.... Would you let your tranny mate babysit your kid(s)?

I don't know the stats but trans people don't seem to be anymore of a danger to young children than any other group just because they wear women's clothes.

[Clem Fandango]

I don't know the stats but trans people don't seem to be anymore of a danger to young children than any other group just because they wear women's clothes.

Mentally ill people are more likely to harm themselves and others (I'm not saying they are paedos).  I view trans people as mentally ill. I don't want them around my own kids, or anyone else who can't protect themselves.