The NHS

[Ayton Mews]

If we weren't importing 800,000 people a year (and the real number is probably double that) then we wouldn't need foreigners to work in our NHS.

Well that is absolute fucking nonsense

[ZiEgE]

If we weren't importing 800,000 people a year (and the real number is probably double that) then we wouldn't need foreigners to work in our NHS.

Well that is absolute fucking nonsense

Which bit?

[Blott]

It all depends who you believe, right wing bollax or left wing bollax.

Immigrants from outside the EU countries made a net fiscal contribution of about £5.2 billion, thus paying into the system about 3% more than they took out. In contrast, over the same period, natives made an overall negative fiscal contribution of £616.5 billion.

[TerryCochranesSocks]

Without getting all political and that surely this is a problem of the last government? They had it for what 10-15 years? Hope D makes a full recovery

It's been a problem for every government for decades. The NHS is a religion in this country, you criticise it at your peril. It gets more than enough money but wastes it on ludicrous management structure, piss poor purchasing practices and politically correct salaries for woke projects.

Some staff are brilliant, some are absolutely useless - they're not all angels!

This is a nettle that has to be grasped but certainly won't be by this idiotic government intent on creating a communist state in the UK, and it certainly wasn't by the previous fucking clowns.

Wes Streeting has said he wants to reform and make it more efficient and cost effective. This would mean big changes for medical and surgery hours.

Let's see.

[Ural Quntz]

It all depends who you believe, right wing bollax or left wing bollax.

Immigrants from outside the EU countries made a net fiscal contribution of about £5.2 billion, thus paying into the system about 3% more than they took out. In contrast, over the same period, natives made an overall negative fiscal contribution of £616.5 billion.

Source

[Blott]

It all depends who you believe, right wing bollax or left wing bollax.

Immigrants from outside the EU countries made a net fiscal contribution of about £5.2 billion, thus paying into the system about 3% more than they took out. In contrast, over the same period, natives made an overall negative fiscal contribution of £616.5 billion.

Source

The Fiscal Effects of Immigration to the UK
Christian Dustmann and Tommaso Frattini
Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM) at University College London

[TerryCochranesSocks]

That quote is from an article in The Conversation from 2014.

It is certainly an opinion. "Lies, damned lies and statistics".

[Blott]

That quote is from an article in The Conversation from 2014.

It is certainly an opinion. "Lies, damned lies and statistics".

we agree, both sides are guilty of the same.


My view is that immigration has been a great asset to the UK. Others differ.

[TerryCochranesSocks]

Read their study and you'll find statistical tools such as assuming that most immigrants have completed their education fully before arriving in the UK so they therefore include a 'fiscal benefit' in their calculations for what a full education would have cost in the UK.  This is just one of their stat tricks.

These people just play games with numbers to justify immigration and to give (wafer thin) credibility to their political paymasters. Use your own eyes.

[Blott]

Read their study and you'll find statistical tools such as assuming that most immigrants have completed their education fully before arriving in the UK so they therefore include a 'fiscal benefit' in their calculations for what a full education would have cost in the UK.  This is just one of their stat tricks.

These people just play games with numbers to justify immigration and to give (wafer thin) credibility to their political paymasters. Use your own eyes.

see above I agree. Some people believe Farage when he opens his mouth, me not so much.

[TerryCochranesSocks]

"Immigrants from outside the EU countries made a net fiscal contribution of about £5.2 billion, thus paying into the system about 3% more than they took out. In contrast, over the same period, natives made an overall negative fiscal contribution of £616.5 billion."

You post their numbers as a statement of fact (should have stated it was a quote btw), I point out the statistical tricks employed by these, and other academics, to provide an answer they have decided is correct before they start their 'study'. So I am disputing the numbers you quoted.

You respond  - I agree

and - I don't believe Farage



It's like having two different conversations at the same time, with a schizophrenic.

[Blott]

You post their numbers as a statement of fact (should have stated it was a quote btw), I point out the statistical tricks employed by these, and other academics, to provide an answer they have decided is correct before they start their 'study'. So I am disputing the numbers you quoted


I think that is impossible to argue with. A bloke called Joseph Heller was an expert in it.

[TerryCochranesSocks]

A Catch 22 is something entirely different.

[Blott]

You argued the justification of the data. Without giving an explanation of why you think it's wrong, and where your source is to justify that.

You accepted the right wing graphs above without a murmur.

[Clem Fandango]

Should the entire world's population of, say, 8 billion be allowed to live in the UK from tomorrow?

Immigration can help a country and is a good thing. What is not beneficial is uncontrolled immigration at a pace where resources cannot keep up.  That harms a country (never mind the security risk).  There is no "leveling up" or magic money tree - the average productivity and standard of life reduces across the board. 

[Blott]

You make a fantastic point, of ourselves there has to be controlled immigration. But it would help if the West were not so fucking greedy. We read about Somali pirates, they are pirates because we, the west decided to pretty much empty their fishing waters with bottom of sea trawling. Somalis never did this.


There are hundreds of not thousands of examples where the west have destroyed economic well being. I fully accept that their governance is shocking but we back the ones we like and shit on the ones we don't.

Key Findings
Foreign IUU fishing in Somali waters is fueling public anger and perpetuating conflict in five ways:

by directly competing with the domestic fishery;
through links to piracy;
through nearshore illegal and destructive bottom trawling;
by contributing to regional political conflict over vessel licensing;
and by reducing long-term livelihood security.
Significant levels of foreign fishing combined with inconsistent governance mean Somalis are not fully benefiting from the exploitation of their marine resources at a local or national level, leading to insecurity at both scales.

Document Citation:https://doi.org/10.3389/fmars.2019.00704

[TerryCochranesSocks]

You argued the justification of the data. Without giving an explanation of why you think it's wrong, and where your source is to justify that.

You accepted the right wing graphs above without a murmur.

I read their article, you can see the daft assumptions, I pointed one blatant one out. My source is their own article.
I haven't commented on any graph.

[TerryCochranesSocks]

You make a fantastic point, of ourselves there has to be controlled immigration. But it would help if the West were not so fucking greedy. We read about Somali pirates, they are pirates because we, the west decided to pretty much empty their fishing waters with bottom of sea trawling. Somalis never did this.

Which countries illegally fished Somali waters?

Was it the UK? The US?
Or was it not permittedstan, Yemen, Iran, Thailand, China?

[Ural Quntz]

You argued the justification of the data. Without giving an explanation of why you think it's wrong, and where your source is to justify that.

You accepted the right wing graphs above without a murmur.

I read their article, you can see the daft assumptions, I pointed one blatant one out. My source is their own article.
I haven't commented on any graph.

Top work TC!

[Blott]

You make a fantastic point, of ourselves there has to be controlled immigration. But it would help if the West were not so fucking greedy. We read about Somali pirates, they are pirates because we, the west decided to pretty much empty their fishing waters with bottom of sea trawling. Somalis never did this.

Which countries illegally fished Somali waters?

Was it the UK? The US?
Or was it not permittedstan, Yemen, Iran, Thailand, China?

it was the EU, Russia and Africa.

We have to take some of the blame.

[Blott]

You argued the justification of the data. Without giving an explanation of why you think it's wrong, and where your source is to justify that.

You accepted the right wing graphs above without a murmur.

I read their article, you can see the daft assumptions, I pointed one blatant one out. My source is their own article.
I haven't commented on any graph.

I know because it fits your voice.

[Kippers]

So let me get this straight in my mind, we owe all Somalians a living because of fishing issues that has nowt to do with the UK?

 We want doctors and nurses in the uk. The most cost effective way to do that is train kids from leaving school. Otherwise we pillage African countries of their best people.
 We don't need drug dealers, vagabonds or villans

[LG1660]

Did not say there was "mistreatment".

Example.

At 7am (this is after 12 hours in AE) we were told that she was being admitted as an in patient.

I leave, drive home and go straight to bed.

I wake up at 10.30am to a text to say D is home.
At 8am (after i was told i might as well go home at 7am) D was "released".

That is not "mistreatment" but piss poor "communication" between Drs and D.

Like the morning Carmen was picked up by patient transport for a routine appointment at 10am.
By 3pm i was worried. Not answering her phone. No texts etc.
On the phone for nearly an hour. No "trace" of her turning up for her appointment.
I get to the hospital at 8pm to look for her. At 8.30pm i found her.
In intensive care.
Something had happened in the ambulance on the way. What? I never was told.
They swore blind they had rung me numerous times. I said nope not a single call from them.

Carmen came out of coma after 2 and a bit weeks.
I was visiting her and some "senior" bod overheard me telling Carmen what had happened that day. She went on the "attack" defending the staff etc. "This does not happen" blah blah.
I was getting pissed off because she would not have it that i had recieved any phone call.
The "bod" went and got the "paperwork".
Yes several calls had been made.
To Carmens phone!.
They were ringing her number "all day" and not the next of kin, me.
That "bod" did not even apologise for trying to mug us off in a ward full of patients/visitors.

But hey Carmen died a few months after that so what does it matter now eh?.

The NHS is not the sainted thing it once was. It makes mistakes. That is understandable. I get that.
But should daft things like not contacting NOK because they did not read the "paperwork" correctly happen?.
What about if Carmen had passed that day?.

And before the bother starts im not interested in money or suing or someone to blame.
An apology would of been nice though.

A lot of issues in the NHS (and private companies) can be resolved through half decent communication beyween their staff and customers.

Even if there is no mistreatment Ken, their lack of communication over the 12 hour period needs to be raised. It may mean a slight tweak in process to ensure people are kept updated, it also may have been raised as an issue before and may result in direct action to ensure it doesn't happen again

[BoroRedKen]

Cheers LG.

 

[Ayton Mews]

If we weren't importing 800,000 people a year (and the real number is probably double that) then we wouldn't need foreigners to work in our NHS.

Well that is absolute fucking nonsense

Which bit?

The bit I quoted